Kseniya Chilingarova’s collection

WHAT GAVE A START TO YOUR COLLECTION?

A charity auction, where I was able to buy the piece by Olya Chernyshova. Back then, at the auction, there was that kind of an unhealthy hype all around, and I realized that I managed to buy something really valuable. This piece really does have a great value for me: it’s one of my favorites in the collection.

YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT THE COSMOSCOW AUCTION, AREN’T YOU?

Exactly. Me, I always had a tendency to gather things: I love clothing, and I even buy some clothes for the collection in the first place, and not to wear them everyday. Fashion for me is more about collecting, I treat it like art. It might be more about design, yes, but it’s art anyway.

YES, FASHION MADE IT TO MUSEUMS. BUT LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR COLLECTION FIRST: WHAT WERE THE NEXT STEPS? WAS IT A CONSCIOUS CONSUMPTION OR SOMETHING RATHER CHAOTIC AND EMOTIONAL?

The second. I definitely have an emotional approach to art: you need to have a lot of money to have an opposed approach. Then you’ll create a huge investment, of course: I have once seen a lot of Picasso drawings from his erotic series being sold for around half a million euros throughout a year. A year later they cost more than one million already.

YOU BET.

Lucky or not, I have never had such big budgets. And I realized that my resources let me collect art in an emotional way. I have chosen a theme, because the theme is always important in the collection. I was always interested in Russian art, the one that happens all around me and speaks the same language. I wanted to support the artists, some of which were my friends. I started buying photography. It’s a very interesting art sphere, underestimated in Russia, rarely treated seriously enough. Everybody is afraid to purchase it, because it’s about printed editions, and the photos themself can be seen on Instagram anyway. This is my favorite argument.

MANY PEOPLE WHO ONLY START CONSIDERING BUYING ART ARE SCARED BY THE FACT THAT THE PIECE CAN HAVE SEVERAL EDITIONS, IT’S LIKE THE PRINTED ART IS NOT REAL ART AT ALL.

It’s like they just don’t know the history of art well enough, and can’t recall that a lot of artworks had numerous editions initially. The great artists used to paint the same paintings eight times straight: Caravaggio, for instance, had one particular painting in several variants. The sculpture has editions too, and nobody is confused by that at all. Why should someone be confused by photography then?

YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU ARE FRIENDS WITH A LOT OF ARTISTS. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? WERE YOU SURROUNDED BY THE ARTISTS FROM THE BEGINNING?

Oh, it happened somewhat chaotically! I think fashion and art are very connected to each other, we can’t exist without influencing each other. Just like artists, photographers influence fashion, and at the same time, fashion influences artists and photographers. Such connections create a kind of community in which you live and communicate. Many designers are friends with photographers. For example, Jonathan Anderson lately has been working mostly with Juergen Teller, who shoots all campaigns for him. One can say, they happen to have a strong artistic duet. How many collaborations have art and fashion had throughout the course of history? Even before the time when Pieter Mondriaan was inspiring Yves Saint-Laurent: for instance, one can never imagine that Klimt and his ornaments haven’t had affected the fashion of his time. And we study fashion by painting too: that’s how we got to know that female shoes never had heels back in the XVIII century, in order to take the shoes off easily. And we see such shoes in the portraits of women from that era. That’s how it all connected.

WHICH ARE THE MOST STRANGE AND UNUSUAL PIECES THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR COLLECTION?

Probably, two Vereja dresses that I acquired at the charity auction.

CAN YOU WEAR THEM? OR ARE THEY STRICTLY ARTWORK?

One thing can’t affect another: there was a time when I could wear them, but now, I think, I got a bit larger and can’t fit in.

SOMETIMES A COLLECTION STARTS FROM PAINTINGS, THEN COMES THE PHOTOGRAPHY, AND THEN A COLLECTOR MOVES ON TO TOTAL INSTALLATIONS AND SCULPTURES. HOW IS IT WITH YOU?

I did perform that exact transition. And, if not for the difficulties of the moment, I’d be purchasing video art by now. In fact, I was very close to purchasing a total installation by Bogdan Shirokov. I was ready for that: when you start diving into and buying art, you also begin to appreciate its complex forms too.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH AN INSTALLATION?

I would give it to a museum or a gallery. It’s more about museums, of course.

WOULD YOU KEEP A VIDEO ART?

There is a great example of video art at Richter’s: you sit in front of a screen and find yourself placed almost right before a fountain. Video art can be built into interiors too, but still, it’s also more about museums.

WERE YOU EVER AFRAID OR UNCOMFORTABLE GETTING ACQUAINTED WITH AN ARTIST? I OFTEN GET THAT FEELING THAT NOT ALWAYS YOU SHOULD COMMUNICATE WITH ARTISTS.

Not always. They say Michelangelo had an awful nature. I’m not sure if I’d like to be friends with him. But speaking of modern artists… I like Dima Rebus very much, I have his works. I know he’s very shy, he doesn’t seem to have a wish to communicate with you when you try to talk to him, it’s his special trait of character. Not all artists are super active in terms of communication.

DO YOU THINK ARTISTS SHOULD KNOW HOW TO SELL THEMSELF, DURING OUR DIGITAL ERA?

I don’t like when somebody speaks of art like it owes something to someone. Selling is more related to the seller, not to me, the customer. It’s easier to sell the pieces when your artist is a super star, opens doors by kicking them, comes in and everyone adores him. It’s much more difficult, when an artist doesn’t want to communicate with anybody, and remains anti-social. But that fact doesn’t make their art worse at all. It depends on their approach to the creative process: just like many other people, a lot of artists don’t stick to the deadlines, while many of these deadlines are mandatory.

HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED SELLING SOMETHING FROM YOUR COLLECTION? WERE THERE ANY REQUESTS FOR BUYING, MAYBE?

I thought about that: there are some things that don’t fit into the general flow of the collection. I wouldn’t mind selling some of them and buying something new. It’s that kind of rotation that should happen one way or another. The thing is, our market is very complicated, and it’s not easy to resell art here. It’s just like the realty market in Russia: when you buy a house, you have to realize that you won’t be able to make money on it. Of course, there are always things that get sold quite easily: the stars are always in value, there is a separate market for Bulatov, for instance.

EVERYONE HAS THEIR OPINION. KABAKOV WAS DROPPING IN PRICE AT SOME MOMENT TOO.

He was, but he has his own market too, and Ira Petrakova, who I love very much, doesn’t seem to have one. It’s like we haven’t grown to that level yet. Maybe it’s because the artists are not yet integrated into the international process?

The big problem of our art is that the artists often do not have the ability to exhibit the pieces abroad. A lot of them are not integrated in the international creative process because of many different reasons, which I wouldn’t like to dive into, but they lose a lot in terms of their careers. Vika Kosheleva’s works, for example, are getting sold not only in Russia, she has a French gallery that works with her, and you can tell her artwork will grow in price when you acquire it.

BUT YOU’RE NOT GETTING STOPPED BY THAT, RIGHT? YOU COLLECT RUSSIAN ART ANYWAY.

I believe that one is most useful in their place of origin. Frankly speaking, I think it's a good thing. I own a small drawing by Kabakov and a few other pieces that could be seen as investments, but most of the artists in my collection are very young. By acquiring their works, I am supporting the industry and its development. It's crucial for me to witness the growth and evolution of art, and I have always had faith in Russian art and its contribution to the world's culture.

While we acknowledge the significance of our avant-garde artists from the beginning of the 20th century, we often overlook the art from even earlier periods. In the last century, the rediscovery of church icons, which were transported to America after the Revolution, greatly influenced many artists, including Rothko. It is important to recognize and appreciate the influence of our art history on contemporary artists, and I have faith in the potential of young artists to carry on this legacy.

DO YOU BUY SOME PIECES JUST TO SUPPORT THE ARTIST?

Yes, I do that very often. I usually do that at Blazar, to support that segment: I have purchased one piece for 15 thousand rubles, just to give the artist a motivation to continue their work.

WHAT PLANS OR DREAMS DO YOU HAVE RELATED TO YOUR COLLECTION?

I don’t really know. I would like to believe that it will continue evolving. I like what Garage Museum did with artists hubs, and I’d like to develop the photography in that kind of way, helping the industry, and influencing it in a positive sense. Any magazine, dedicated to art and fashion photography, is a book of hints for people who love art, some kind of a table book that helps you to dive into actual events. And not only in Russia. On the post-soviet ground and in the whole world in general. I’d like to support the artists now, but I’m not yet sure if I know how to do that exactly. I’m not ready to buy art right now, in terms of my emotions, and I’d like to save some money too, because nobody knows what will happen next. But I want to do something very much.

I have always aimed for my magazine to have an international reach for a specific purpose - to feature an artist exhibited at a prestigious French gallery alongside someone who has lived or grown up in the post-Soviet region. By doing so, the gallery staff might discover our artist's works simply because they were interested in reading the article, and this could facilitate the integration of our artist into the international art scene. That's why we have established a distribution in Paris.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF DIGITAL ART?

I realize that this world exists right now, but I have a slight fear of that media. But I guess that this is a new reality for 17-18 years old.

I BELIEVE THIS IS A QUESTION FOR OUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE: WHY DOES MODERN ART SEEM TO BE UNAPPEALING? PERHAPS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID THEY WON’T UNDERSTAND IT. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE MANAGED TO OVERCOME THAT FEAR.

Definitely. I made my way to video art, and I like it very much. But I’m still scared of it a bit: it’s hard to dive into it on your own, and it would be great if I had a coach, instructor, or curator who could lead me to this.

WHEN I WENT TO JULIA STOSCHEK COLLECTION ON PURPOSE, TO LOOK AT THE VIDEO ART COLLECTION, I GOT A FEELING THAT I WAS TIRED AFTER HAVING WATCHED JUST A HALF OF IT.

It's natural for someone who visits the Louvre without a background in art history to feel overwhelmed by the information conveyed by every piece. This is why we rely on guides and curators, just like how Neo had Morpheus to prepare him. Similarly, with video art, an unprepared individual who lacks a deep understanding of the artistic processes of the 20th century might perceive it as nothing more than a joke or a boring moving image. However, cinema was also once treated skeptically and not considered an art form. Despite this, there are still cinematic masterpieces that have earned the title of art.

WHAT WAS THE LAST THING THAT YOU PURCHASED?

I think it was Petrakova.

AND THE MOST PECULIAR ONE?

I somehow have Pavlov's dog. It’s more Titov, actually, but I called it Pavlov’s dog. It’s very funny, of a green color. It’s amusing to watch people feel different in its presence: some like it, while some prefer to move it from the corner, so that it won’t be looking at them. My real dog barks at it sometimes.

DOES IT MEAN THAT YOUR ART IS ALIVE?

Of course. The cheapest pieces are the ones I bought at Blazar, I don’t even remember the names of the artists. I hope they will forgive me for that, but those are very cute things.

DON’T YOU MAINTAIN A CATALOG OF YOUR ART?

It’s a huge miss: something that I always think and talk about. Anya Dulgerova has always been telling me that I need to start working on it, and I still keep postponing.

CAN YOU ADVICE SOME OF THE BEGINNING ARTISTS? WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE BROUGHT TO THE LIGHT?

I like when different types of art combine with each other. Like Sasha Gordeev’s works: the poems and paintings combine, it’s very peculiar. I’d like to shed some light on the photographers, Bogdan Shirokov, for example, who is more or less known already, actually. Or Polina Rukavichnaya: a wonderful young photographer, who has a great potential in my opinion. Speaking of paintings, the most underestimated artist in my opinion is Sveta Vikers. Her piece is one of the most favorite in my collection.