Where the beauty gets created: at Mayana Nasybullova’s studio in Tbilisi

HAVE YOU RECENTLY ARRIVED IN TBILISI?

My partner and I recently arrived in Tbilisi on September 18th. We initially spent some time in Yerevan, but eventually moved here where my partner found a good job. We are currently figuring out our plans for the future, but we appreciate the opportunity to make decisions calmly here. I am still figuring out how to make a living here, so I am currently splitting my time between Russia and Tbilisi. I am currently working on a commercial project in Moscow designing a salon called "Art.And Nails" for owners Yana and Anton, who are taking a unique approach by hiring an artist rather than a designer. I hope it goes well. I also have an exhibition at the Anna Nova Gallery in December and after that, I will be ending my lease on my workshop in St. Petersburg before returning to Tbilisi.

WHOSE IS THIS HOUSE IN WHICH YOU LIVE NOW? IT'S BIG ENOUGH AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE!

We rent this house with friends, but its history began even before my arrival: the house was settled by people who left at the very beginning (there was a word prohibited by the legislation of the Russian Federation) various vagrants from culture. It was a large, chaotic community that spontaneously disintegrated and dispersed in different directions. Judging by the tales passed from the old tenants to us, the new tenants, they led a more idle lifestyle in the form of regular drunken parties, and we have a more relaxed family vibe with our current neighbors.
We have a symbolic senior, the person for whom the contract is written is a VR artist from Kursk, Andrey Andreevich. He is the only one from the first "set" who continues to live here. It seems to me that Andreich wants this place to turn into an art residence by itself, because when he was looking for tenants here, he recruited so many artists.

YOU ARE PLANNING TO DO A SECOND PROJECT, REFLECTING TODAY'S EVENTS. HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED CENSORSHIP AND IS THERE ANY FEAR WHEN YOU DO SUCH PROJECTS?

There is fear, but not the same as at the beginning, and not the same as before the exhibition in the Sidur Museum. I am trying to ensure that anti-war actions and statements become a regular practice. I am far from an activist, but I believe that if you regularly make a little effort - repost, donate, look for people in the police department, sign petitions, write to political prisoners, speak openly always and with everyone, remember why you are doing this - that's all together can sharpen the stone of totality.

I don't think I've come across any censorship. My experience has been a positive one given canceled projects, closed exhibitions and ongoing layoffs. I think my exhibition at the Sidur Museum did not receive the attention of the structures for two reasons. First, Siddur himself is an anti-war artist. And, making an exhibition in the museum named after him, it is impossible not to fall into this narrative. The second reason may have to do with location. The museum in Perovo attracts less attention than the museum in Moscow. But these are just my guesses.

In fact, the MMOMA workers were extremely supportive throughout the process of preparing the exhibition. The goal was to openly criticize, but to be safe for everyone.
The only thing is, when the deed is done and the exhibition is shown, you ask yourself: “Why is this necessary? Nothing has changed. (here was a word prohibited by the legislation of the Russian Federation) is still going on.

YOU, AS A PERSON WHO WORKED WITH COLLECTIVE MEMORY AND THE SOVIET HERITAGE FOR A LONG TIME, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THIS STILL IS SO INFLUENTIAL ON PEOPLE WHO REMEMBER EVERYTHING WITH NOSTALGIA AND WISH TO JOIN EVERYONE AND RETURN ME?

This is the sum of difficult circumstances, because, on the one hand, there is a rather strong resentment to which Russian propaganda is now catching our fellow citizens. This is a feeling of resentment, dissatisfaction, the myth of "historical justice" and so on. At the same time, there is some incredible, incomprehensible distrust of everything. You can often see it in conversations with citizens of the Russian Federation: people are very unsure of what is happening, and they block and isolate any sharp statement.

I do not have full competence, but there is a feeling that this is the age-old isolation of people from any influence on the processes taking place in the country, the age-old tradition of repression and colonization - they seem to have suppressed vital energy. By all sorts of psychoanalytic things, we understand that if it is hidden, this does not mean that it goes away, and eventually manifests itself in the form of sublimated anger.

It seems to me that after going through the reworking of public consciousness, which took place especially vividly in the 20th century, people simply no longer remember what is normal. They forgot that they are citizens of this country. As if all thoughts of a peaceful existence behind numerous slogans and rhetoric related to the greatness of the nation and civic duty have ceased to be visible and tangible to people. People feel that the world is a dangerous place in which you need to, like the most angry injured dog, take it out on everyone so that they just don’t touch you.

I think there is an obvious problem - the lack of access and public reflection on state crimes that have occurred throughout its history. This is the Great Terror, and the hardest colonization of indigenous peoples and the colonial policy through which they went. It turns out that some emptiness is formed where facts and memories should be. This void was very actively filled in the postmodern 90s by everyone. Then there was a great surge of mystical consciousness. During that period, a huge number of conspiracy theories appeared, many speculative documentaries were released, which for their time became a bright phenomenon.

This is some kind of endless new age in terms of collective memory and how it is applied in practice. Something like “thoughts are material, think positively, there is no exact information, we cannot know anything”, but in fact we can, everything is checked, everything is proven, all instructions are written out.
When the Nazis lost World War II, Americans held major social events to explain what the Holocaust was. I think such practices can be very effective, but who will do this, who will do this, and who even wants to read about it? People are just tired, people are exhausted. Most live in poverty, the level of normalized violence is quite high. Language violence, domestic violence, school violence. In this context, it is difficult to see the whole picture and start collective action. Perhaps people are really tired of poverty, constant crises, and they have no desire to come into contact with anything unpleasant. But to make the house clean, you need to get into the dirt.

BY THE WAY, GEORGIA IS VERY STRONGLY CRIPPLED BY THE SOVIET UNION. DO YOU FIND SOIL FOR YOUR WORK HERE?

I spent a little time here, only at the stage of study. It's just great here. And by the way, here I found out that Georgia is a colonial name. In fact, the country is called Sakartvelo. Russification also affected the local language, and at the same time, the Kartvelian country managed to break this colonial inheritance.
I don't see it as ground for work. I don’t understand yet how I feel in connection with moving, so I’m just watching, and learning Georgian.

THE GEORGIAN LANGUAGE IS REALLY VERY INFLUENCED BY THE SOVIET UNION. IT HAS A LOT OF RUSSIAN WORDS. I MET A GUY FROM AN ARMENIAN FAMILY, BUT HE WAS BORN IN GEORGIA AND ALL HIS FAMILY SPEAKS RUSSIAN. HE EVEN TOLD ME THAT HE THINKS IN RUSSIAN QUITE OFTEN TOO.

Yes, that's why it's cool to meet young people here who don't know Russian and think logically: "Why should I speak it?". In addition to the basic freedom of choice, there are many symbolic benefits, such as interruption of colonial traditions, but also a conscious attitude towards the language. Preserving the language is my personal pain as well, because no one in my family knows and did not know Tatar. And now, having begun to study it, I am not fully aware of why, I have never had an authentic context.

YOU SAID ART HELPS AND GETS YOU OUT. CAN YOU TELL HOW? AND WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON NOW?

What I'm doing here right now is just art therapy to relax and unwind. I found a box with beads, and it's just relaxing to put beads on a string. I make anti-war Christmas garlands. It turns out that I do art more for myself, as a recreation.
The project that I plan to show at Anna Nova will be very similar to the project at the Sidur Museum. With a small form and plasticity, I will show a certain set of destinies of people who are leaving. Someone leaves for (there was a word prohibited by the legislation of the Russian Federation), someone leaves the country, someone leaves to die. To designate, among other things, very large processes of the movement of people now. Completely unbalanced, crisisful, and which will lead to even more escalations. I want to create a total installation: a procession of little people who are going somewhere and become a large crowd leaving.
I still love ceramics very much, which I don’t do at all here in Tbilisi, because I don’t have the equipment. I am more engaged in graphics, I do craft linocut, beadwork and think about the upcoming project.

YOU STARTED IN BARNAUL AND NOVOSIBIRSK, THEN YOU MOVED TO MOSCOW AND THEN TO SAINT PETERSBURG. TELL ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES YOU OBSERVED BETWEEN YOUR HOMETOWN AND THE MOSCOW MOVEMENT? WAS IT DIFFICULT TO JOIN IT, AND HOW DID THIS PROCESS HAPPEN FOR YOU?

The most important difference is the lack of a market. In Siberia, as in most regions of Russia, the practice of paying fees is not common, moreover, some venues want you to pay them for exhibiting with them. This tradition of exploitation of artists who simply want to show their work has reached the point where they hold paid open calls for their artists in Novosibirsk, justifying this by saying that supposedly everyone does this.

Making art in Siberia from the very beginning, there was no expectation that at some point it would help to earn a living. The motivation is to create some kind of alternative to what the official toothless sites offer. And as a result of the conditional exhibition, the very fact that it took place is valuable. In Moscow, there is an opportunity to earn money by doing art, and this is not necessarily the sale of works. These are fees for institutional projects, grant and scholarship programs. All this in sum, of course, feels like a friendlier environment than my beloved Novosibirsk.

Now I understand that it would be wiser to go to study somewhere, having moved to Moscow: this way you immediately get into the community, to exhibitions, from there to some kind of market. But when I moved, I thought I was too good for that. I was fully confident that I knew and understood everything, and therefore did not go anywhere to study. Because of this, during all three years that I lived in Moscow, I was never able to join the Moscow movement. Despite the fact that I made many friendly contacts, I was in the Garage workshops, I still felt that I was not part of this world, although maybe everyone feels that way. But I say this without annoyance, I just did not feel part of the community. Although it is very problematic to cover it mentally, it is not strange to feel the distance.

YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN WORKING WITH SOUND RECENTLY. WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO DO THIS?

I've been doing this for quite some time, it's just that it's never been part of public practice, because I still treat it as something I do for myself. Work with sound is largely connected with the sound environment of Siberia. We have our own incredible sound artists, experimental labels, concerts and festivals. I mean, they were, before (there was a word prohibited by the legislation of the Russian Federation). Honestly, when I think about the Siberian party, I understand that it would be impossible to not work with sound.

It all started like everyone else. My friend and I decided to play noise, turn the knobs, look for our sound and record it. One friendly magazine about modern philosophy lmnt.space took our noise performance as an illustration for the text. The noisers from Perm saw this video and invited us to perform. Then I wanted to somehow more actively include it in my practice. I began to make sound sculptures, with the ability to generate sound or transmit it.

I had an idea: to make an exhibition with noise sculptures. And it so happened that I gave an interview to the Sobaka magazine, and it was taken by Alexandra Generalova, who oversaw the Shame space in St. Petersburg. At the end of our conversation, she suggested doing an exhibition. This spurred me on, and I made a whole series of sound monsters. All day long, for two weeks, I sat inside the installation and made noise.

YOU OFTEN REFER TO THE IMAGE OF A CLOUD. THERE ARE CLOUDS IN YOUR NEW OBJECTS FOR THE GATHERING. WHAT IS THIS SYMBOL?

I remember exactly the moment from early childhood, where I am lying in a puddle and absolutely happy, relaxingly looking at the clouds for hours. This is an image that occupies a lot of space in my heart, but is not attached to anything. I just love clouds. I began to actively work with this image at the Krasnoyarsk Biennale, where I made my first installation of clouds. In it, they had the outlines of Soviet symbols: such as a star, a sickle and a hammer... The images of Soviet heraldry either disintegrate in the air under the influence of the wind, or hang and crush the beholder. This experience was not the most successful in aesthetic terms, but it was important.

Then there was “Nemoskva”, an installation with a cloud in Tashkent, in Berlin I proposed the installation “Everything is happening again”, which was the answer to “Nothing is happening again”. Then the same installation was asked to the festival in Komarovo, she also went to Triumph. I've been referring to this image regularly for some time.

I also had an installation, which has now moved into the permanent exhibition of the Krasnoyarsk Museum, where roots hang from a cloud, and when you touch them, they make noise and talk. This, by the way, was another attempt to integrate sound.

Perhaps it's naive that I cling to this childhood image so much. This is probably also a kind of art therapy - to find in the work an opportunity to please yourself with a cloud.